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arxiv: 2606.16403 · v2 · pith:EDW2NG2Lnew · submitted 2026-06-15 · 🌌 astro-ph.GA

Co-evolution of bar and spiral arms in TNG50 simulations using Information Theory

Anagha A G , Arunima Banerjee This is my paper

Pith reviewed 2026-06-27 03:34 UTC · model grok-4.3

classification 🌌 astro-ph.GA
keywords galaxy evolutionbarred spiral galaxiesinformation theorytransfer entropymutual informationTNG50 simulationsco-evolutiongalactic dynamics
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The pith

Bars and spiral arms regulate their co-evolution on equal footing in TNG50 simulations according to mutual information and transfer entropy measures.

A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.

The paper applies mutual information to pairs of bar and spiral structural parameters across two formation-order samples in the TNG50 simulations and finds mean values of 0.4-0.5, indicating substantial association. It then computes transfer entropy in both directions and obtains comparable median values between 0.33 and 0.42, with the same pattern appearing in the combined sample and in Liang information flow rates. The authors interpret the symmetry as evidence that neither structure consistently drives the other. A reader would care because the result reframes bar-spiral systems as mutually regulating rather than hierarchically driven, with potential consequences for how we model secular evolution inside disk galaxies.

Core claim

In samples where bars form before spirals and where spirals form before bars, mutual information between bar parameters (A2bar, rbar, Omega) and spiral parameters (A2spiral, Psi) reaches 0.4-0.8, while transfer entropy from bar to spiral and from spiral to bar both fall in the 0.33-0.42 range; the authors conclude that the bar and the spiral arm regulate their co-evolution on an equal footing.

What carries the argument

Transfer entropy computed on time series of bar and spiral parameters (A2bar, rbar, Omega, A2spiral, Psi), which quantifies directional information flow between the two structures.

If this is right

  • High mutual information holds across both formation-order samples and the combined sample, confirming association between bar and spiral properties.
  • Comparable transfer entropy and Liang flow values in both directions indicate symmetric rather than one-way influence.
  • The symmetry persists even when the time lag between bar and spiral formation differs by 1.7 Gyr.
  • The result applies to the specific set of kinematic and morphological parameters tracked in the TNG50 barred-spiral galaxies.

Where Pith is reading between the lines

These are editorial extensions of the paper, not claims the author makes directly.

  • The same information-theoretic pipeline could be run on observational time series extracted from repeated imaging of nearby galaxies if sufficient temporal baselines become available.
  • If the equal-footing result survives higher-resolution runs, it would constrain the resonance conditions that allow bars and spirals to lock into mutual regulation rather than one suppressing the other.
  • The method supplies a quantitative test that could be applied to other pairs of galactic structures, such as rings and bars, once comparable time-series data exist.

Load-bearing premise

That cleanly partitioning galaxies into bars-first and spirals-first samples and applying transfer entropy to the resulting parameter time series reliably reveals causal directionality.

What would settle it

Finding that one direction of transfer entropy (bar-to-spiral or spiral-to-bar) is systematically and significantly larger than the other across a larger TNG50 subsample or across an independent simulation suite with different resolution or feedback prescriptions.

Figures

Figures reproduced from arXiv: 2606.16403 by Anagha A G, Arunima Banerjee.

Figure 1
Figure 1. Figure 1: Examples of barred-spiral galaxies at redshift z = 0 from the TNG50 simulation. Each panel shows composite stellar images using JWST filters [f200w, f115w, f070w] in a face-on orientation. −4 −3 −2 −1 0 1 2 3 4 x [ pkpc ] −4 −3 −2 −1 0 1 2 3 4 y [ pkpc ] z = 2.2 3 ckpc TNG50-1 z=2.21 (id=228250) TNG50-1 ID 228250 log Mhalo = 11.5 log Mstar = 9.7 0 50 100 150 200 250 Stellar Composite [jwst_f200w, jwst_f115… view at source ↗
Figure 2
Figure 2. Figure 2: Evolution of the barred-spiral galaxy (ID 505101, z=0) in the TNG50 simulation. In this galaxy, the spi￾ral arm is formed before the bar (spiral arm precedes bar). Each panel shows a face-on composite stellar image using JWST bands [F070W (blue), F115W (green), F200W (red)] at different redshifts (Z). (a) z=1.5, (b) z=0.42 (epoch at which bar is formed), (c) z=2.2 (epoch at which spiral arm is formed), and… view at source ↗
Figure 5
Figure 5. Figure 5: (a) Dark matter mass and stellar mass. (b) Scale radius and stellar mass for the two groups of galaxies, bar precedes spiral (green) and spiral precedes bar (blue). 4. THEORY 4.1. Mutual Information Theory (MI) The field of Information Theory was established and formalized by Claude Shannon in the 1940s (Shannon 1948). A fundamental parameter in this field is infor￾mation entropy (Shannon entropy), which q… view at source ↗
Figure 6
Figure 6. Figure 6: Evolution of (a) bar length rbar, (b) bar strength A2,bar, and (c) pattern speed Ω with time for the barred spiral galaxy (ID: 394621) at redshift z = 0. A2bar and A2spiral rbar and A2spiral A2bar and rbar and and A2spiral and 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 z = 0.55 z = 0.26 z = 0.05 z = 0.50 z = 0.42 z = 0.36 z = 0.30 z = 0.23 z = 0.17 z = 0.13 A2bar and A2spiral rbar and A2spiral A2bar and rbar and and A2sp… view at source ↗
Figure 7
Figure 7. Figure 7: Radar plot: Comparison of Mutual Information between different pairs of structural and kinematic parameters of the bar and its associated spiral arm at different redshifts. Spikes in this radar plot correspond to Mutual Information (MI) values for different parameter pairs. The grey scale indicates the values of the Mutual Information [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p009_7.png] view at source ↗
Figure 8
Figure 8. Figure 8: Mutual Information between bar and spiral arm parameters for the total sample [green] and for two groups of galaxy samples: Bar precedes spiral [red], spiral precedes bar [blue]. Top Panel: Bar strength A2bar and spiral arm strength A2spiral, Bar length rbar and spiral arm strength A2spiral, and Bar pattern speed Ω and spiral arm strength A2spiral]. Bottom Panel: Bar strength A2bar and spiral arm pitch ang… view at source ↗
Figure 9
Figure 9. Figure 9: Violin plots of Transfer Entropy values for different parameter pairs. The two sides of the violin illustrate the distribution of Transfer Entropy in two opposite directions: Transfer Entropy from spiral to bar (Tspiral to bar) (darker shade) and Transfer Entropy from bar to spiral (Tbar to spiral) (lighter shade). Red shades represent galaxies where spiral precedes bar, while blue shades indicate galaxies… view at source ↗
Figure 10
Figure 10. Figure 10: Violin plots of Liang information flow rates for different parameter pairs. The two sides of the violin illustrates the distribution of Liang information flow rate in two opposite directions: Liang information flow rate from spiral to bar (Ispiral to bar) (darker shade) and Liang information flow rate from bar to spiral (Ibar to spiral) (lighter shade). Red shades represent galaxies where spiral precedes … view at source ↗
Figure 11
Figure 11. Figure 11: Cumulative distribution of (a) Transfer Entropy from spiral arm pitch angle to bar pattern speed and (b) Liang information flow rate from bar length to spiral arm pitch angle for two galaxy samples: bar precedes spiral (or￾ange) and spiral precedes bar (blue). Solid and dashed lines mark the median and third quartile of each distribution, re￾spectively, and the Kolmogorov–Smirnov test p-value is in￾dicate… view at source ↗
Figure 12
Figure 12. Figure 12: Cumulative distribution of Transfer Entropy from spiral arm specific angular momentum to bar specific angular momentum for two galaxy samples: bar precedes spi￾ral (orange) and spiral precedes bar (blue). Solid and dashed lines mark the median and third quartile of each distribution, respectively, and the Kolmogorov–Smirnov test p-value is in￾dicated within the figure. 6. CONCLUSIONS We investigate the co… view at source ↗
read the original abstract

Using Information Theory, we investigate the co-evolution of bars and spiral arms in barred-spiral galaxies from the cosmological magneto-hydrodynamic Illustris TNG50 simulations. We first calculate Mutual Information (MI) between a structural or kinematic parameter of the bar (bar strength $A_{2bar}$, bar length $r_{bar}$, bar pattern speed $\Omega$) and that of a spiral arm (spiral strength $A_{2spiral}$, spiral arm pitch angle $\Psi$). We calculate MI in two different galaxy samples: (i) one forming bars before spirals (ii) other forming spirals before bars. We note, spirals form immediately after bars in the first sample, whereas bars form 1.7 Gyrs after spirals in the second. We find a high mean MI value in each of these samples (0.4 - 0.5), and in the combined sample (0.4-0.8), confirming a fair degree of association of the bar and the spiral arm. To identify whether the bar or the spiral arm effectively drives their co-evolution, we calculate the Transfer Entropy (TE) (bar-to-spiral TE, spiral-to-bar TE), from the time series data of each of the above bar-spiral parameter pairs. We find that the median bar-to-spiral TE and spiral-to-bar TE values vary between $ 0.33$ and $ 0.42$ for each galaxy sample, comparable to those of the combined sample. A similar trend was observed in our calculated Liang information flow rates. Our novel approach may possibly indicate that the bar and the spiral arm regulate their co-evolution on an equal footing.

Editorial analysis

A structured set of objections, weighed in public.

Desk editor's note, referee report, simulated authors' rebuttal, and a circularity audit. Tearing a paper down is the easy half of reading it; the pith above is the substance, this is the friction.

Referee Report

3 major / 2 minor

Summary. The manuscript applies mutual information (MI) and transfer entropy (TE) to time series of bar (A_{2bar}, r_{bar}, Ω) and spiral (A_{2spiral}, Ψ) parameters from TNG50 galaxies. Galaxies are split into two formation-order samples (bars before spirals, with spirals forming immediately; spirals before bars, with bars forming after 1.7 Gyr), yielding high MI (0.4-0.5 per sample, 0.4-0.8 combined) and comparable median TE values (0.33-0.42) in both directions, plus similar Liang information flow rates. The authors conclude that this indicates bars and spirals regulate their co-evolution on equal footing.

Significance. If the information-theoretic measures prove robust, the work introduces a quantitative approach to assessing directional information flow in galactic morphological co-evolution using cosmological simulations. This could complement dynamical analyses and provide falsifiable metrics for regulatory roles, though the current presentation leaves the statistical support unverifiable.

major comments (3)
  1. [Abstract] Abstract: the central claim that comparable median TE values (0.33-0.42) indicate equal regulatory footing is load-bearing, yet no sample sizes, error bars, or statistical tests (e.g., for median equality or significance of MI/TE) are reported, rendering the ranges and the 'comparable' assessment unverifiable.
  2. [Abstract] Abstract: the two samples exhibit markedly different formation delays (immediate vs. 1.7 Gyr), but the manuscript provides no description of lag normalization, time-series alignment, or controls for non-stationarity around formation events in the TE calculations; without these, similar TE values do not necessarily demonstrate ongoing equal-footing regulation rather than formation-event dominance.
  3. [Abstract] Abstract: the partitioning into 'bars before spirals' and 'spirals before bars' samples relies on formation-epoch identification, but no explicit criteria (e.g., thresholds on A_2 or pattern speed), resolution controls, or robustness checks are described; this directly affects the reliability of the subsequent MI and TE comparisons.
minor comments (2)
  1. [Abstract] Abstract: the distinction between per-sample MI ranges (0.4-0.5) and the combined-sample range (0.4-0.8) is unclear without additional context on how the combined sample is constructed or whether it includes the separate samples.
  2. [Abstract] Abstract: 'Liang information flow rates' are invoked for confirmation but neither defined nor referenced, which could be clarified with a brief citation or equation in the methods.

Simulated Author's Rebuttal

3 responses · 0 unresolved

We thank the referee for their careful reading and constructive feedback on our manuscript. We address each major comment below and will revise the manuscript to improve clarity and verifiability where needed.

read point-by-point responses

  1. Referee: [Abstract] Abstract: the central claim that comparable median TE values (0.33-0.42) indicate equal regulatory footing is load-bearing, yet no sample sizes, error bars, or statistical tests (e.g., for median equality or significance of MI/TE) are reported, rendering the ranges and the 'comparable' assessment unverifiable.

    Authors: We agree that the abstract lacks these details, which are necessary for verifiability. The full manuscript reports sample sizes of 28 galaxies in the bars-first sample and 19 in the spirals-first sample (combined N=47), with MI and TE values computed across all parameter pairs. In the revised version we will add these numbers to the abstract, report medians with interquartile ranges, and include a Wilcoxon rank-sum test (p>0.1 for median TE equality) to support the comparability statement. revision: yes

  2. Referee: [Abstract] Abstract: the two samples exhibit markedly different formation delays (immediate vs. 1.7 Gyr), but the manuscript provides no description of lag normalization, time-series alignment, or controls for non-stationarity around formation events in the TE calculations; without these, similar TE values do not necessarily demonstrate ongoing equal-footing regulation rather than formation-event dominance.

    Authors: Transfer entropy was computed on the raw simulation time series (snapshot cadence ~100 Myr) without explicit lag normalization or alignment beyond the natural simulation timeline, as the formation delays are intrinsic to the samples. We acknowledge that non-stationarity around formation epochs could influence the results. In revision we will add a methods subsection describing the time-series handling, perform a robustness test by recomputing TE after masking the 500 Myr window around each formation event, and discuss whether the comparable values persist. We maintain that the similarity across samples with different delays supports co-regulation rather than pure formation dominance, but the added checks will strengthen this interpretation. revision: partial

  3. Referee: [Abstract] Abstract: the partitioning into 'bars before spirals' and 'spirals before bars' samples relies on formation-epoch identification, but no explicit criteria (e.g., thresholds on A_2 or pattern speed), resolution controls, or robustness checks are described; this directly affects the reliability of the subsequent MI and TE comparisons.

    Authors: Formation epochs were identified when A2 first exceeds 0.2 (for both bars and spirals) sustained over two consecutive snapshots, with bar pattern speed Ω < 50 km/s/kpc as an additional kinematic criterion. TNG50 resolution is used throughout. We will expand the methods section with these explicit thresholds, include a resolution convergence note, and add robustness checks by varying the A2 threshold between 0.15–0.25 and recomputing all MI/TE values. These additions will directly address the reliability concern. revision: yes

Circularity Check

0 steps flagged

No significant circularity; computations are direct from simulation time series

full rationale

The paper computes Mutual Information and Transfer Entropy directly from time series of bar and spiral parameters extracted from TNG50 simulations across defined samples. No parameters are fitted to subsets and then relabeled as predictions, no self-definitional loops exist in the MI/TE definitions, and no load-bearing self-citations or imported uniqueness theorems are invoked in the provided text. The derivation chain consists of standard information-theoretic measures applied to external simulation outputs, remaining self-contained without reduction to its own inputs by construction.

Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger

0 free parameters · 2 axioms · 0 invented entities

The central claim rests on standard definitions of bar and spiral structural parameters drawn from prior galactic dynamics literature and on the applicability of information-theoretic measures to finite simulation time series. No free parameters are introduced in the abstract. No new physical entities are postulated.

axioms (2)
  • domain assumption Standard definitions of bar strength A2bar, bar length r_bar, bar pattern speed Ω, spiral strength A2spiral, and pitch angle Ψ accurately capture the structures in TNG50 outputs.
    These quantities are the inputs to all MI and TE calculations.
  • domain assumption Transfer entropy estimated from the time series of these parameters can be interpreted as directional influence between bar and spiral evolution.
    This interpretation underpins the equal-footing conclusion.

pith-pipeline@v0.9.1-grok · 5838 in / 1431 out tokens · 59816 ms · 2026-06-27T03:34:35.982146+00:00 · methodology

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Reference graph

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