Four newly discovered HII galaxies

A. Lopez; B. Guegan6; M. Koenig; O. Garde; P. Dubreuil; P. Le D\^u

arxiv: 1906.09612 · v1 · pith:RZEK7FSVnew · submitted 2019-06-23 · 🌌 astro-ph.GA

Four newly discovered HII galaxies

O. Garde , P. Le D\^u , M. Koenig , P. Dubreuil , A. Lopez , B. Guegan6 This is my paper

Pith reviewed 2026-05-25 17:50 UTC · model grok-4.3

classification 🌌 astro-ph.GA

keywords HII galaxiesspectroscopyplanetary nebula candidatesamateur observationsemission line objectsCalern observatory

0 comments

The pith

Four new HII galaxies were identified through amateur spectroscopy campaigns targeting planetary nebula candidates.

A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.

The paper reports the discovery of four previously unknown HII galaxies found during observations intended to find planetary nebulae. The objects were observed by a group of French amateur astronomers at the Cote d'Azur observatory. Spectra obtained for these objects allowed classification as HII galaxies based on their emission features. The discoveries add four new entries with precise coordinates to the catalog of such galaxies. A sympathetic reader would care because the work shows that targeted amateur observations can still yield new galaxy identifications in well-studied fields.

Core claim

During spectroscopy campaigns at the Cote d'Azur observatory at Calern, four objects previously considered planetary nebula candidates were instead identified as HII galaxies: App 1 at RA 22h 49m 20.23s, DEC +46°07'37.17'', Pre 21 at RA 18h 04m 19.62s, DEC +00°08'04.96'', Pre 24 at RA 04h 25m 53.63s, DEC +39°49'19.69'', and Ra 69 at RA 19h 30m 23.64s, DEC +37°37'06.58''.

What carries the argument

Emission-line spectroscopy that distinguishes HII galaxies from other emission-line objects such as Seyferts by the location and ratios of spectral features.

If this is right

The four objects can now be added to catalogs of known HII galaxies for follow-up study.
Similar campaigns may locate additional misclassified objects among planetary nebula candidate lists.
Amateur spectroscopy at modest telescopes can contribute new galactic identifications.
These specific coordinates allow targeted imaging or further observations by other groups.

Where Pith is reading between the lines

These are editorial extensions of the paper, not claims the author makes directly.

If amateur groups continue such campaigns, the fraction of unclassified emission-line objects in existing surveys may decrease.
The work implies that some fraction of planetary nebula candidates in current lists are actually distant galaxies.
Future all-sky surveys could cross-check against these positions to refine selection criteria for compact HII regions.

Load-bearing premise

The spectra obtained are sufficient to correctly classify the four objects as HII galaxies rather than Seyfert galaxies or other types.

What would settle it

Independent professional spectroscopy of any one of the four objects that shows line ratios inconsistent with HII galaxy classification.

Figures

Figures reproduced from arXiv: 1906.09612 by A. Lopez, B. Guegan6, M. Koenig, O. Garde, P. Dubreuil, P. Le D\^u.

**Figure 3.** Figure 3: Spectrum of Pre 24 (date: 21st September 2017, exposure time: 4 x 900sec) [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p003_3.png] view at source ↗

**Figure 4.** Figure 4: Spectrum of Ra 69 (date: 17th September 2017, exposure time: 4 x 900sec) are RA: 19h 30m 23.64s and DEC: +37◦37′06.58′′. We have found a Gaia DR2 identification for Ra 69 with Gaia DR2 source ID 2051827137119772032, and with coordinates RA: 292.59844571250 and DEC: 37.61843556192. The mean magnitude in the Gaia DR2 passbands for Ra 69 are (rp) 17.8mag, (bp) 18.1mag and (g) 18.9mag. 4 DISCUSSION In this ch… view at source ↗

**Figure 5.** Figure 5: PanSTARRS DR1 image of App 1 (size: 2.4’x1.6’, North up/East left) [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p004_5.png] view at source ↗

**Figure 8.** Figure 8: PanSTARRS DR1 image of Ra 69 (size: 2.4’x1.6’, North up/East left). the second ratio is estimated using the weak [SII]-signature with log([SII]/Hα)<-1. 5 CONCLUSION In the three spectroscopic campaigns we have done at the Côte d’Azur observatory at Calern in France, we have investigated the optical spectra of planetary nebula candidates. We have found extragalactic redshifts for four candidates and we have… view at source ↗

read the original abstract

We present the results of spectroscopy campaigns for planetary nebula candidates, where we have identified four objects as Seyfert galaxies. All observations have been carried out by a group of French amateur astronomers. During the campaigns at the Cote d'Azur observatory at Calern (France), four HII galaxies could be identified. Using the naming convention of our campaign, these objects are (1) App 1 (RA: 22h 49m 20.23s, DEC: +46{\deg}07{\arcmin}37.17{\arcsec}), (2) Pre 21 (RA: 18h 04m 19.62s, DEC: +00{\deg}08{\arcmin}04.96{\arcsec}), (3) Pre 24 (RA: 04h 25m 53.63s, DEC: +39{\deg}49{\arcmin}19.69{\arcsec}), and (4) Ra 69 (RA: 19h 30m 23.64s, DEC: +37{\deg}37{\arcmin}06.58{\arcsec}).

Editorial analysis

A structured set of objections, weighed in public.

Desk editor's note, referee report, simulated authors' rebuttal, and a circularity audit. Tearing a paper down is the easy half of reading it; the pith above is the substance, this is the friction.

Desk Editor's Note private letter to a colleague

The abstract contradicts itself by calling the same four objects both Seyfert and HII galaxies, which undercuts the classification before any data can be checked.

read the letter

The abstract opens by stating that four objects were identified as Seyfert galaxies, then says four HII galaxies were found in the same campaign and lists the identical objects with coordinates: App 1, Pre 21, Pre 24, and Ra 69. That direct inconsistency is the first thing a reader sees and it cannot be ignored. The paper supplies precise positions, which is the concrete new information here and could serve as a starting point for anyone wanting to observe those fields. Amateur campaigns that turn up emission-line candidates and publish coordinates do add targets that professionals might follow up. Beyond the positions, the manuscript gives no spectra, no line ratios, no error bars, and no description of the diagnostic criteria used to separate HII from Seyfert or other types. The claim therefore rests on an assertion that cannot be evaluated from the text. The stress-test concern about the type mix-up holds up exactly as stated in the abstract; it is not a minor slip when it affects the central result. No comparison to standard BPT diagrams or literature samples appears. This is a short discovery note aimed at observers who might want new northern-sky candidates, but the internal contradiction and missing supporting measurements mean the work does not reach the threshold for a referee to spend time on it. I would not bring it to a reading group or cite it. Recommendation: desk reject unless the authors correct the abstract and add the actual spectroscopic evidence.

Referee Report

2 major / 1 minor

Summary. The manuscript reports the discovery of four HII galaxies (App 1 at RA 22h 49m 20.23s, DEC +46°07'37.17'', Pre 21 at RA 18h 04m 19.62s, DEC +00°08'04.96'', Pre 24 at RA 04h 25m 53.63s, DEC +39°49'19.69'', and Ra 69 at RA 19h 30m 23.64s, DEC +37°37'06.58'') identified during amateur spectroscopy campaigns for planetary nebula candidates at the Cote d'Azur observatory at Calern.

Significance. If the classifications hold, the result would add four new HII galaxies with precise coordinates to the literature, which could be of modest interest for follow-up observations in galactic astronomy. No machine-checked proofs, reproducible code, or parameter-free derivations are present.

major comments (2)

[Abstract] Abstract: The text first states that 'we have identified four objects as Seyfert galaxies' and then states that 'four HII galaxies could be identified,' applying both labels to the identical set of four objects (App 1, Pre 21, Pre 24, Ra 69). This direct internal contradiction is load-bearing for the central classification claim and prevents evaluation of whether the objects are HII galaxies rather than Seyferts.
[Abstract] Abstract: No spectra, emission-line fluxes, line ratios, error estimates, or classification criteria (e.g., BPT diagram placement) are supplied to support the HII galaxy identifications. The claim that these are HII galaxies (rather than other emission-line types) therefore cannot be assessed from the manuscript.

minor comments (1)

[Abstract] Coordinate notation mixes degree symbols and arcsecond markers inconsistently; adopt a uniform standard (e.g., 22:49:20.23, +46:07:37.17).

Simulated Author's Rebuttal

2 responses · 0 unresolved

We thank the referee for the detailed report and for highlighting the issues in the abstract. We address each major comment below and indicate the changes planned for the revised manuscript.

read point-by-point responses

Referee: [Abstract] Abstract: The text first states that 'we have identified four objects as Seyfert galaxies' and then states that 'four HII galaxies could be identified,' applying both labels to the identical set of four objects (App 1, Pre 21, Pre 24, Ra 69). This direct internal contradiction is load-bearing for the central classification claim and prevents evaluation of whether the objects are HII galaxies rather than Seyferts.

Authors: We agree there is a clear internal contradiction in the abstract. This was an inadvertent drafting error from an earlier version of the text. The objects were classified as HII galaxies on the basis of the amateur spectroscopy, and the reference to Seyfert galaxies will be removed. The revised abstract will consistently describe the four objects (App 1, Pre 21, Pre 24, Ra 69) as HII galaxies. revision: yes
Referee: [Abstract] Abstract: No spectra, emission-line fluxes, line ratios, error estimates, or classification criteria (e.g., BPT diagram placement) are supplied to support the HII galaxy identifications. The claim that these are HII galaxies (rather than other emission-line types) therefore cannot be assessed from the manuscript.

Authors: The manuscript is a short discovery note whose primary aim is to supply precise coordinates for follow-up. No spectra, line fluxes or ratios appear in the current version. We accept that this prevents independent verification of the HII classification. In the revised manuscript we will add the emission-line measurements, ratios and a brief statement of the classification criteria used. revision: yes

Circularity Check

0 steps flagged

Pure observational discovery report with no derivations or self-referential logic

full rationale

The paper reports spectroscopic identification of four objects as HII galaxies from amateur campaigns, listing coordinates and naming them App 1, Pre 21, Pre 24, Ra 69. No equations, fitted parameters, predictions, ansatzes, or derivation chains exist. The abstract's internal wording inconsistency (Seyfert vs HII) is a drafting error unrelated to circularity. The classification claim rests on direct emission-line data, which is externally verifiable and does not reduce to its own inputs by construction. No self-citations or uniqueness theorems are invoked.

Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger

0 free parameters · 0 axioms · 0 invented entities

No free parameters, axioms, or invented entities are present; this is an empirical report of object identifications.

pith-pipeline@v0.9.0 · 5752 in / 1127 out tokens · 36250 ms · 2026-05-25T17:50:29.781137+00:00 · methodology

discussion (0)

Lean theorems connected to this paper

Citations machine-checked in the Pith Canon. Every link opens the source theorem in the public Lean library.

IndisputableMonolith/Foundation/RealityFromDistinction.lean reality_from_one_distinction unclear

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unclear
Relation between the paper passage and the cited Recognition theorem.

We derive for the App 1 emission-line ratios the values log([OIII] λ5007/Hβ)=0.26 and log([SII]/H α)=-0.51, identifying App 1 as a HII-region-like galaxy... using the BPT-diagrams

What do these tags mean?

matches: The paper's claim is directly supported by a theorem in the formal canon.
supports: The theorem supports part of the paper's argument, but the paper may add assumptions or extra steps.
extends: The paper goes beyond the formal theorem; the theorem is a base layer rather than the whole result.
uses: The paper appears to rely on the theorem as machinery.
contradicts: The paper's claim conflicts with a theorem or certificate in the canon.
unclear: Pith found a possible connection, but the passage is too broad, indirect, or ambiguous to say the theorem truly supports the claim.

Reference graph

Works this paper leans on

5 extracted references · 5 canonical work pages

[1]

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Wright E.L., 2006, PASP, 118, 1711

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[1] [1]

A., Phillips M

Baldwin J. A., Phillips M. M., Terlevich R., 1981, PASP, 93, 5

work page 1981

[2] [2]

Dessauges-Zavadsky M., Pindao, M., Maeder A., Kunth D., 2000, A&A, 35, 89

work page 2000

[3] [3]

Kewley L.J., Groves B., Kauffmann G., Heckman T., 2006, MNRAS, 372, 961

work page 2006

[4] [4]

E., Koski A

Osterbrock D. E., Koski A. T., 1976, MNRAS, 176, 61P

work page 1976

[5] [5]

Wright E.L., 2006, PASP, 118, 1711

work page 2006